New Shop And Pre-order

Discussion in 'General' started by Anashel, Apr 2, 2015.

  1. Anashel

    Anashel Puppet Master Staff Member

    Ahhhh, got it Santiak.
    But I'll need to find another wording then season pass, since they are sidequest to play with between season or when you want to take a break. They will be more experimental and follow a shorter storyline. Like our sandbox if you want. Unique UI for a set of mission, like we did with div66.

    With season 1 you have all that you need to play the game. Mission pack should be rename for Exta mission, or something in that case so people don't get confused with the actual mission from Season 1.
     
  2. Silverfox

    Silverfox Senior Agent

    Subplots?
     
  3. Bats

    Bats Division 93: Covert Grammatical Ops Battalion

    I think nikel just did a pretty good job of summing up my worries. I've been nervous about Steam reactions ever since it was announced that TBW was going for Greenlight, simply because of how different TBW is (and because people might miss the season entirely if they're accustomed to waiting for it to hit $4 on sale - or maybe I'm more of a cheapskate than the average Steam user)... But high price tags on indie games and day one DLC both seem to have a way of provoking especially hostile reactions[*] - and it's hard to counter emotional reactions with logical arguments like dollars per hour.


    -Bats
    [*] And, in the case of day one DLC, I'm generally inclined to agree
     
    7 people like this.
  4. nikel

    nikel Lab 1852 - Neurals

    I'm typing too slowly on my tablet, Santiak pretty much covered one of the points I want to make.

    The other is the issue of "Day 1 DLC," which is incredibly contentious among gamers right now (most of the time for no good reason.) The biggest complaint is "why wasn't this included in the game when normal development resources went towards this (now DLC content?)" I think this could be solved by waiting to release the bonus missions for a period of time, like halfway through season 1, or maybe even once season 1 is over. The way it looks like on the website store seems like it's all to be released at once.
     
    6 people like this.
  5. Bats

    Bats Division 93: Covert Grammatical Ops Battalion

    The wording on this is something you might want to be very careful about, since it's becoming rather common for games to use the term "season pass" to describe packs that include the game and all future DLC, or, in the case of episodic games, all future episodes.


    -Bats
     
  6. Anashel

    Anashel Puppet Master Staff Member

    Thanks Nikel, and I agree.

    Each Mission Pack contains a set of special side missions, to be played in addition to the content of Season 1. Following the release of the game in Q2 of 2015, each mission pack will be released in stages. So we could very well NOT announce them in advance on steam when we release the game.
     
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  7. Santiak

    Santiak MIA

    Ah, right.

    *goes into his thinking room*
    ..
    *makes a mental note to clean up the rock dust as he steps back out*

    Initially, that was also the conclusion I came to. But the more I think about how I'd react as someone looking in from the outside, the more I get the feeling I'd wonder "Why are these missions not part of the other missions?"

    I think it comes about because TBW is somewhat unique, in the sense that not only is the main part episodic (Season 1, 2, etc.), but the additional Mission Packs are also episodic (Mission pack 1, 2, etc.), which would muddy the waters - again, for me as an observer - as to why there are a set of main missions released every ~3 months, and a subset of missions released every ~3 weeks (I assume), rather than more total missions released every ~3 months at a higher cost.

    And of course there's also the issue of the packs already being on the website store, which I imagine could be seen as some as a shrewd attempt at decieving the Agents.

    Perhaps having a "Auxiliary Mission Pass" be available on launch, which promises later DLC, and then add the individual packs as they become available?

    Edit: Oh, and your analogy of "1$ ≈ 1 hour of game-time", Anashel, might be a good thing to add on the Steam store page - as well as showing the fact that Season 1 is currently discounted (if it is when it becomes available on Steam)
     
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  8. Ashielf

    Ashielf Senior Agent

    Ok, what's up with this community? I wanted to open a rant thread about the mission packs and here you are, already discussing it rationally and stealing all my thunder. You are glorious.

    All my concerns have already been addressed. Summarised: As of now, the mission packs look like you have content which you don't include in the game but decide to separate to make extra cash.

    If you address this in a way like mentioned above this shouldn't be the problem anymore.
     
    7 people like this.
  9. Anashel

    Anashel Puppet Master Staff Member

    I agree, if you got the feeling that any of the KS money was use to do mission pack that we plan, I would be against it too. It's double dipping for sure. I'll make a fishbowl video about it to explain why I created the mission pack in the first place. But if need be, we will remove them and refunds the player who bought them so far, I will not force any financial model if the community isn't 100% behind it. (Well, let say 99%)
     
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  10. Santiak

    Santiak MIA

    I personally am behind it - my examples were mainly if I was looking from the outside in as an uninitiated observer, and not as I am now, from the inside. I apologize if I gave the impression of the converse. :)

    The only caveat I have with the Mission Packs, is that they need to be handled carefully, to avoid the backlash that is so often seen on Steam when it's not handled nigh on perfectly. (i.e. there not being any doubt whether the "expansions" are legitimately expansions, or whether they are part of a dissected game, or in the worst cases; cash-grabs).
     
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  11. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Active Agent

    I have nothing against extra mission packs / DLC, but a kickstarter based game being released on Steam with 80EU DLC right away would attract more trolls then potential buyers I agree. It wouldn't be pretty. With crowd funded games people seem to have the delusion that they are now entitled to all the content so I think there will always be some people complaining about the extra DLC either way, especially if it wasn't mentioned in the kickstarter campaign itself. It is really worth noting everywhere if these extra packs have not been funded with KS money.

    Even then four DLC packages in three months may be a bit much though. Again I personally don't have a problem with it if they are released spread over the first season and not all released at launch right away, but I do feel that people who are not avid fans like us might have a very different opinion on that as it is more then even MMOs like TSW put out in the same time period.

    I do expect people who are against it to bring up quotes like:
    Which is not really accurate anymore if the DLC does happen.
     
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  12. Anashel

    Anashel Puppet Master Staff Member

    You are mixing Season and DLC in that quote. Season is on thing, Mission Pack another that clearly need to be clarify. Wait for my fishbowl video, i'll do my best to clarify this.

    And in complete honesty, if after my explanation people don't like it, we will simply remove it. I have no intention to force any financial model on the community, just the chance to do a great game and have it survive season 1. :)
     
  13. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Active Agent

    I understand that more money is needed and we all want to see as much seasons as possible (bring on the shipping containers am I right?) but it might come as a bit of a shock to people especially since it had never been mentioned before this at all. I will just hold off my final thoughts until the video though. ;)
     
  14. Kle

    Kle Senior Agent

    i understand the need for extra income but I know it's not something I can afford. Given how much I have already invested in the game this leaves me feeling mixed to say least.
     
  15. Anashel

    Anashel Puppet Master Staff Member

    Hi @Kle, I don't want you or any of my community members to feel that way. I am sorry for the commotion and will simply remove the mission pack and refunds the player who bought them so far.



    Once season 1 is launch and peoples have fun, we will have time to revisit the project and see if Mission Pack are a good addition to the overall experienc.
     
    7 people like this.
  16. Kle

    Kle Senior Agent

    I should clarify. I'm not against mission packs in theory.

    I think the mission packs could be good once season one has come to a close. It would be a good way to keep people involved between seasons.

    Having mission packs mid season could risk confusing people as to which story they should be following. Possibly detracting from the main story and the story that each mission pack contains.

    By offering them once the season comes to a close people would be much more likely to pick them up to take part as it would give them something new to do and also feel like they were helping to support the game as it moves towards a new season.

    I think if handled well they can be a good thing. I know you guys are great at doing stories and I'd hate to see people distracted from a season by mission packs that people think may contain clues that are important to the season.

    I hope that makes sense.
     
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  17. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Active Agent

    Yeah I think am with Kle here. I think mission packs in between season could maybe give you guys a little breathing room as well to get the next part of the overall story line done. Also I think that in a later part of the game, it will be fine to release such mission packs during a season (and I do think it could be a lot of fun), but especially with a type of game like this that is new and that people have no experience with we have to just really be careful especially in the beginning. Ease them into it really.

    In the end we all want the best game possible with a lot of happy players right? ;)
     
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  18. Anashel

    Anashel Puppet Master Staff Member

    Oh yes we do! =)
     
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  19. Santiak

    Santiak MIA

    P'hah! I'd prefer a community full of paranoid people suddenly unsure of what they've gotten themselves into, with every phone call being answered with trepidation, every novel experience being analysed in scrutiny and with meticulousness, all accompanied by a constant but acceptable degree of sleep-deprivation, and that heavy feeling you get in your skull that tells you you're about to get a headache; the pressure of which is released with every solution found.

    *ahem*

    But yeah, I agree; all in all a good decision. If nothing else, it'll also let you gauge how much downtime/need for diversification there'll actually be during a Season, and then take that into account when Season 2 (hopefully) comes about.
     
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  20. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Active Agent

    I am sure there will be lots of that too. :p
     
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