Crowdtilt Issues

Discussion in 'General' started by Anashel, Jun 21, 2014.


Should we issues Gift Cards to players who had to wait for a refunds

Poll closed Jun 28, 2014.
  1. Yes

  2. No

  1. Santiak

    Santiak MIA

    Hehe, no worries - the more opinions we get, the better.
    From the looks of things, the Gift Card will not be coming from Crowdtilt - although considering they (Crowdtilt) are late once more, they really, really should be the ones offering those Gift cards, or at least offer to cover the estimated losses that HE will accrue from all this going into Kickstarter. We can only hope that Crowdtilt wakes up and realises this is all on their shoulders, and what a bad rep this will garner for them, once people find out how they've been handling this whole situation - and how hard Human Equation has fought to remedy it.

    Until then, I agree with you - it is a mixed bag of nuts, and the only thing I can say with certainty myself, is I have the utmost admiration and trust in Human Equation as developers - which I also had before, but, well, yeah, as I posted previously:

    3 people like this.
  2. Bats

    Bats Division 93: Covert Grammatical Ops Battalion

    I know how you actually intended this (and, in fact, I agree with you absolutely and without reservation), but now that they've got that new (and awfully stylish) "Staff Member" title under your name, it comes across sounding a bit like a self-congratulatory HE rep dismissively saying "We're doing a great job with this! Trust us, we do!"

    You might want to sit down with Anashel and see about a way to differentiate titles between HE staff and forum staff, or toss a note in your .sig to clarify your nominal independence (however much we all find ourselves starting to talk about HE as "we") before we start getting a crowd here who don't already know each other.

    (I suppose another option would be to hold back on flattery of HE... but let's not talk crazy talk)
  3. Santiak

    Santiak MIA

    While I do see your point, I was careful to primarily refer to HE in the 3rd person, i.e. not talk about HE by using "we" - but about the community as "we", and I do agree with you on the "Staff" part - was somewhat surprised about that myself - and was something I was meaning to run by Anashel once they're through what I can only imagine is a busy hurdle for them. :)

    On a side-note, while it may sound scary, I do feel it's important for people even in - perhaps especially in - semi-official positions to voice their personal opinion (which I also high-lighted it as), because it means that, should the non-semi but fully-fledged officials step outside what is reasonable behaviour, or come into a situation where the community is thoroughly disillusioned with them, and as such needs to listen to their community, the task of getting their attention falls to "us" (semi-officials) - and I would personally prefer it if that person isn't trained in being objective; they might not get the issue hammered home if they are.

    So aye, I agree with you that, because of the "Staff Member" title, my utterances does sound dismissive of the issue, but more to the point, my final comment wasn't meant as flattery or blatant dismissiveness of the issue at hand - as I know you are aware - but as my personal take on things. Something I believe is vital for someone positioned between the community and devs.

    Of course, while there are no negatives to highlight, highlighting the positive immediately seems quite lob-sided.

    *wanders off to add disclaimer to sig to avoid more insinuated bias* ;)
    2 people like this.
  4. Bats

    Bats Division 93: Covert Grammatical Ops Battalion

    Actually, I wasn't referring to you specifically, so much as to all of us - especially on IRC. In the same way that sports fans will talk about their favorite team as "us", there's regularly a very similar sort of identification with HE (especially when talking about the campaigns). Arguably a more justified one, too - as "we" (the community) have an awful lot more to do with HE than the average football fan has to do with their team winning the big game.

    Busy? Them? *checks calander* You mean this isn't when they scheduled the week-long office beach party?

    Absolutely. At the times it's actually needed (which are never quite as rare as could be hoped), it's a much more important responsibility than putting out flames and chasing down spambots - often a harder one, too. The problem with a Staff tag with no qualifier or distinction is that it compromises the independence that's essential to that role - or, more precisely, the perception of being independent - and projects whatever you write through a very different lens (or, in this case something closer to a funhouse mirror).

    I'm going to have to disagree on that one (but not strongly enough to further derail the conversation - honest!) - there's a world of difference between being objective, and being unable or unwilling to take a stand or to see the need for it.

    Flattery was the wrong word, with too many negative and empty associations for an obviously genuine expression of support, and I never meant to accuse you of being dismissive. But, to a new arrival reading the forums, you don't appear as someone between the community and the devs. You look like every bit as much of a dev as Anashel, and might very well be sitting at a desk next to him (or, hell, you might be some hotshot HE executive in a corner office, yelling across the room at that new PR intern "Anasomething" that forum avatars showing underboob are inappropriate and unprofessional), and if Anashel were to make the same comment it would absolutely sound dismissive - hence my comment.

    It wasn't, mind you, meant to blow up into anything so seriously or so deeply analyzed - it was a half-joking attempt to point out the incongruity of a reading message that two days ago would've been perfectly ordinary, with reading the same message as coming from a staff account.

    See! That's why I always have to go after the grammatical errors! It's a desperate attempt to make myself appear balanced.

    Actually, I saw that change shortly before sending this... so.. err... can we get a "change post from present to past tense" option for the forum?

    (and your opinion's still biased, of course... but it was only the insinuated/implied/imaginary biases that were problematic - you're perfectly entitled to the genuine ones)

    [edit: and I have no idea why the forums decided that smiley needs his own dedicated quote, but it's damn well determined to keep it that way. best not to argue with it.]
  5. Santiak

    Santiak MIA

    I do agree with your points, specifically regarding the need to highlight I'm not operating in any official capacity; merely as a curator of the forums.
    As for the whole philosophical discussion about objectivity, subjectivity, bias and unbias, and so on and so forth - that's another discussion, as you rightly point out. ;)

    So back to the subject at hand:

    Them darned Crowdtilt issues, and what to do about them!

    (My apologies for not getting the crane out and winching the thread back on track sooner - but I felt it was important to highlight that my utterances were not official statements; to avoid an exacerbation of the confusion surrounding the whole issue of both forum upgrades, as well as what's being done to address the Crowdtilt issue)
  6. Bats

    Bats Division 93: Covert Grammatical Ops Battalion

    I believe the accepted procedure for dispute resolution in situations like this is torches & pitchforks. Anyone have a farm supply store nearby?

    Perfectly understandable... sorry for my contribution to it - it occurred to me (far too late, naturally) that it might be something that called for slightly more delicacy, and slightly less flippancy.

    (or quite a lot more flippancy, I suppose)
  7. Bats

    Bats Division 93: Covert Grammatical Ops Battalion

    I don't think I'd consider it much of an explanation or apology on Crowdtilt's end of things, but I did just get a series of refund-ish emails:
    So, while they don't look to have completely gone through yet, things appear to be moving now.

    (unfortunately, I now need to find a buyer for this truckload of pitchforks and tiki torches)
  8. Santiak

    Santiak MIA

    Aye, would've been nice with even a brief explanation from Crowdtilts side of what went awry.

    Be that as it may, Anashel seems to have gotten the word out effectively enough that most folks are well aware this is Crowdtilts wrongdoing either way - at least from the looks of things on - I'd expect a lot more pitchfork and torch shennanigans if people were not aware it was Crowdtilts fault.

    Did I mention it was Crowdtilts fault?
  9. Nighean

    Nighean Active Agent

    Damn, I hadn't realized I was among those who had pledged with Crowdtilt until I received an email this morning... As you are asking for our opinions Anashel, and as I am affected by this issue (even if it's only with a small amount), I'd say NO to the gift cards. For starters it's not your fault that it's malfunctionning, and second it represents a lot of money that I'd rather see invested in the game itself.
    7 people like this.
  10. Kle

    Kle Senior Agent

    It's just crossed my mind that my bank is going to hit me with exchange rate fees (so would paypal and the cheque would have to go into the bank) so some of the money gets eaten up by the bank :( Couldn't there just be an option to give it to HE? After all that's where it's going anyway!
  11. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Active Agent

    I just got the following email:
    I had to use someone elses credit card, because my main bank account doesn't allow for international purchases. For me personally it doesn't matter when I get the money back tough.

    Hadn't even thought about that. Might have to pay the credit card owner a bit extra then, because there will now be 3 exchange fees (with upcoming kickstarter). :(
  12. Kle

    Kle Senior Agent

    I just spoke to the bank and annoyingly I get an international fee when I make the transaction then an exchange fee when someone puts foreign currency in. Unfortunately Paypal does too so unless I can give it directly to HE then the charge is going to happen one way or another. Hopefully it's not too much :(
  13. Tyryt

    Tyryt Senior Agent

    Your banks are annoying... and ripping you off.
  14. nikel

    nikel Lab 1852 - Neurals

    And Crowdtilt really ought to compensate for these extra funds. Their mistake means you get back less money than you put in. I won't be touching any Crowdtilt projects in the future, that's for sure.
  15. Sonne

    Sonne Division-79

    I think it is Crowdtilt doing the ripping off. A pledge shouldn't have incurred any fees until the decision to pay or refund. Ciaran's money should have lived in escrow unconverted as GBP.
  16. Sonne

    Sonne Division-79

    My sentiment, too. Crowdtilt is in business against Kickstarter's universe. If this is how they differentiate themselves to justify their existence, they'll be out of business soon. The only way they don't die a slow and painful death is to work out the bugs in their tech and sell themselves to an integrated webpresence like PayPal. [/edit or a sudden epiphany that they should make everything right]
    2 people like this.
  17. Bats

    Bats Division 93: Covert Grammatical Ops Battalion

    Not to interrupt all the Crowdtilt-kicking fun, but for those keeping track, I just got a stack of these about two hours ago... Still no real explanation, still not much of an apology ("oops, sorry there was a non-specific delay that we are neither admitting nor implying our responsibility for"), and still using the [email protected] account instead of anything official and crowdtilt-y... but it does look like the refunds have finally been put through. Probably.

  18. Ruke Unlimited

    Ruke Unlimited Senior Agent

    Now I know your real name and credit card number Mr. xxx!
    2 people like this.
  19. Kle

    Kle Senior Agent

    I did get a "follow" up message from a "Kacey". I responded saying how disappointed I was and how I felt it was unfair that HE were paying for Croudtilt's mistake. She explain much or seem to want to take responsibility for the issue. The response I got didn't help much. At that point I sighed! I've attached a copy of the emails if anyone's interested,

  20. Tyryt

    Tyryt Senior Agent

    Still, it's good that they were able to work out the refund instead of some other method that was discussed.

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