Discussion in 'Live Events' started by zaelong, Dec 23, 2017.


What are we doing with Miller

Poll closed Dec 23, 2017.
  1. He is a threat: send in a Strike Team

    86 vote(s)
  2. He is a Victim: send in a Rescue Team

    176 vote(s)
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  1. Twosheds

    Twosheds Active Agent

    Rescuing can lead to information and that is far more valuable in my opinion.
  2. Mintcake

    Mintcake Senior Agent

    Eliminating Miller doesn't solve anything - it just shuts it down. And we know from bitter experience with rupture energy what happens when something is shut down without fully understanding it - time and time again the issue returns, and usually worse than before.

    There is a risk with rescuing Miller and treating him as a victim BUT we need to shift the way we've seen people behaving before. We can't learn from this if we sanitise it without fully understanding it.
    Maxxie likes this.
  3. RdG

    RdG Active Agent

    We must rescue Miller, we can only learn more if we bring him into safety for interviewing and assessments.
  4. zaelong

    zaelong Moderator

    What super secret relevant intel do you guys thing he could even have?
    also there are other ways of getting intel than physically being with him
  5. ShadesOfNier

    ShadesOfNier Active Agent

    This is basically a non-choice, whatever we might take, WC will come gloating at us about how we didn't take the other and how we helped him more than anything else, so.....
    StrangeTree likes this.
  6. LionOfComarre

    LionOfComarre Senior Agent

    What do we know about what being a dream-eater and and being turned into one entails, beyond "They eat dreams"? It has been mentioned that we don't have a cure for the condition in our possession, but what else do we know? Is it compuslive, or is the choir being coerced into using this abillity? What happens to the eaten dreams if there's not a dedicated vessel? This has happened before, right? Did we capture living or dead dream eaters then? Did we do autopsies? What can they do to awake people? Is it directly related to Glasswick, and if so, what makes it different?
  7. Josh Lloyd

    Josh Lloyd Active Agent

    Treat him as a threat but try to be nonlethal if possible
  8. Maxxie

    Maxxie New Agent

    I’m a novice agent. Take me with a grain of salt, if you must.

    It’s a tricky thing. It could be a trick. We should be prepared for that. Agents directly involved in the action should accept this as a real risk and prepare as much as any can.

    He called us for help, right? For himself and on behalf of others. There are layers to what we do who we are, no doubt...but our core is supposed to be for the better, for the good. We’ve been wrong before - I know.

    Still, I vote we go for the rescue, prepared for tricks during and after. If we succeed, we help but we watch to confirm - no moles, no deeper game in play. We help.

    We do our job.
  9. Zankh

    Zankh Senior Agent

    Observe and reply
  10. Seraphinite

    Seraphinite Active Agent

    I have to go with the rescue team to go with the benefit of the doubt, but I would still say proceed with caution and be prepared for any change of events.
  11. tictaktoe333

    tictaktoe333 Active Agent

    Victim and a threat but threat takes presidence over victim.
  12. ominicon

    ominicon New Agent

    Victim but we should take control of him, maybe rescue and arrest
  13. AgentZeus

    AgentZeus Senior Agent

    I voted rescue - purely for the intel potential. He is obviously dangerous so will need to be under our control in some out of the way facility.

    It should be obvious to the rescue team to proceed with extreme caution
  14. jhop71

    jhop71 Active Agent

    ^^These too are my thoughts. Certainly he is a POTENTIAL threat but is definitely capable of giving us much useful info. For this reason the prudent course of action is to send a strike team with primary orders to exfiltrate and secondary to neutralize with extreme prejudice all threats that present. Rescue must be attempted but precautions taken for likely hostile confrontation. Whitechapel will have anticipated this move but it remains still the best option.
  15. mamatj

    mamatj Active Agent

    i understand the risks of not sending a military team,but if we eliminate him,we may be no better than all the evil that we dealt with. thats my humble opinion
  16. SanguineGrimoire

    SanguineGrimoire Active Agent

    Just because a victim poses a danger doesn't mean that they can be eliminated with extreme prejudice. People suffering from mental illnesses and ebola victims can both be dangerous to rescuers, but it is not proper to gun them down.

    There may be methods to nullify the dangers. Perhaps using head-bags embroidered with protective sigils similar to what is on Rin's medallion, or even possibly just tin-foil. Who knows? Administration of drugs such as benzodiazepines or eszopiclone may also inhibit their abilities. Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors maybe helpful. Does the Black Watchmen organization have any pharmacists on staff? Perhaps a cocktail of such drugs may do the trick.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
    mamatj likes this.
  17. Couchy

    Couchy Active Agent

    I can see that a lot of people, both here and in the discord, don't think Miller will have anything useful. There's very good reason to think that, Miller hasn't painted himself in the best light with his communications to us. He's been cryptic and has attempted to bargain with us in an apparent state of emergency. The information he's provided thus far hasn't been to useful. Just Whitechapel's MO. I honestly think the chance he'll be useful is low. But it's not a zero percent chance.

    If we send in the strike team, we definitely won't get info from him. If we send in the rescue team, we MIGHT get some info from him. WC has apparently been an unknown, so I feel we should take the risk and hope it pays off.

    I'm also not sure what downsides there would be to rescuing him. I've seen some crazy theories (and in our line of work, they aren't as crazy as I'd otherwise think) but it's all speculation. And we've been able to defend ourselves and deal with any issues before this.

    I'm willing to say we should take the risk, and try to get some info. If anything bad happens, we'll deal with the fallout as we have apparently done before.
  18. zaelong

    zaelong Moderator

    our job is to protect the world for supernatural threats, not saving individuals from lunatics

    the poll is do we think it is safe to rescue miller, or do we think he is a liability...
    this isnt about what is more usefull, but how are our morals

    its the same old " trolley dilemma" everyone knows, and which has "no correct answer"

    we are being faced with a situation where we can safe a single person and harm others, or where we give up on someone, so we can protect more.

    there might not be a right answer, and the operation might not fail because of choosing the other one over the first, but there might come a time where we are actually forced to vote the very unpopular choice, or else doom everything
    you have to prepare for those as well
  19. StrangeTree

    StrangeTree Active Agent

    Changed my vote.

    If it's a pure black and white call of "Is he a threat?" or "Is he a friendly?" I'm sadly going to go with threat. I would prefer if we could get him out alive and evaluate him offsite, but... that does not appear to be in the cards.
  20. sevilkon

    sevilkon New Agent

    A well-prepared rescue team could sedate him and take him into protective custody.
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