Dispatch Releases On Agent Middipper

Discussion in 'Suspected Missions' started by Leukocyte, May 3, 2016.

  1. Leukocyte

    Leukocyte Active Agent

    Alright folks. I'm mostly on IRC but i hopped on the forums to share this, and speak about it a bit. First, the two emails they shared.

    "Agent Leukocyte,

    We have some results from the forensic analysis and have determined that the cause of death was cardiac arrest. Traces of potassium chloride were found in the body, as well as pentobarbital and pancuronium bromide. We will notify if additional findings are forwarded to us."


    As you know, those three are a lethal injection cocktail used in most US prison executions. I followed up with stating some things I'll discuss in a moment, primarily that the timeline for Dippers death doesnt match with a pentobarbital injection, as youd be knocked out within 30 seconds.

    "Agent Leukocyte,

    It's possible that the pentobarbital injection occurred after the recording was made, the injection Agent MidDipper spoke of during the recording could have been another chemical that the tox screen we performed did not pick up. We will continue to investigate and if we encounter any other leads we will forward them to you."


    As I said, the timeline simply doesnt fit. What was that injection prior to Dippers recording? Why were we left a body and a recording? Why doesnt the information Dipper relayed and the information Dispatch shared match up? I have a gut feeling something isnt right here. I'm hoping you guys can help me figure out what it is.
     
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  2. Leukocyte

    Leukocyte Active Agent

    More to add. Pentobarbital is an induction agent that is only a short term anesthetic, and was originally used as a truth serum. It isnt used for lethal injections anymore because of its unreliability and short duration for anasthetic purposes.

    You'd also need an IV for pentobarbital to be at all effective, as far as I know.
     
  3. codex-13

    codex-13 Senior Agent

    The three drugs listed can't be mixed externally as they'll precipitate. So there had to have been three injections, not one. Given the chemicals present it appears that they were following the lethal injection procedure used in the United States, in which pentobarbitol is administered first-- meaning the recording we heard had to have been before the three lethal injections. So whatever she was injected with wasn't any of those, and the audio recovered from the room is presumably not the entire recording that was made. What was she injected with, and who trimmed the audio and then left it for our team to find?
     
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  4. zaelong

    zaelong Moderator

    Isn't it possible dipper first was injected with sodium thiopental, a so called truth serum?

    I guess they might be used it to get some Intel from her and after that given her those lethal injections.
    I'm not sure about the doses used, but I assume those last injections are administered in pretty high concentrations making it easy to mask other substances
     
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  5. Leukocyte

    Leukocyte Active Agent

    Its possible, but that'd show on the tox report they shared. The three doses she does have, generally must be done seperately and in order, you cant mix them or they foul. So she had to have a minimum of three injections other than the one she mentioned, since pentobarbital has to be first.
     
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  6. zaelong

    zaelong Moderator

    What I meant was, that since those three injections are administered with an iv in a fairly high dose, it might be possible that a 'fourth' injection with a low dose might not be picked up in our screening
     
  7. Leukocyte

    Leukocyte Active Agent

    On a basic tox panel youd be pretty much right. Hopefully dispatch does some more thorough tests than a basic tox panel to check for that.
     
  8. zaelong

    zaelong Moderator

    I just found out that the stuff I mentioned is the same as what's found in the body.

    My guess would be that they could have used smaller doses for interrogation.
    Since this stuff only is necessary for anesthesia, sigil don't actually need to inject it right before the other two injections.
    Like you mentioned earlier; pentobarbital isn't used anymore, meaning it could be left out

    When I get home I'll get my books on this, so I can get more info on this
     
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  9. Leukocyte

    Leukocyte Active Agent

    The thing is, even a small dose wouldve have been noticeable during the recording, it has very pronounced effects. So if the shot she mentioned was pentobarbital, why wasnt there slurring of words, delayed speech, or any other signs of your average induction agent like pentobarbital, when dosed low enough to not put you in a coma?
     
  10. zaelong

    zaelong Moderator

    We don't know exactly when the recording was made or when the injections were given; the pentobarbital could have been given quiet some time before the recording. I read something about the subject not remembering the things they said during the interrogation. When the effects wore off dipper left us the message and than got the other two injections
     
  11. Leukocyte

    Leukocyte Active Agent

    Triscane Labs was located in the Vancouver area. Possible ties to the injections that killed Dipper, as theyd have had relevant experience to varying degrees to handle doing them I'd assume. We have one Beth Hallaway that was an aconite contact for Triscane. May not be related at all, but I'm just throwing all possible/potential here.
     
  12. Lazaruz

    Lazaruz Active Agent

    I may be jumping a bit ahead of myself (wrapped up season 1 but not touched season 2) so feel free to shoot me down if I'm talking crazy, but from what I can find about pancuronium bromide (a.k.a Pavulon) it also doesnt make sense to have been injected pre-recording, atleast working by the data I found which suggest full effect takes hold anywhere between 3-6 minutes (twitch response is usually gone by 4 minutes), so odds are slim at best that it would not be in effect by the time the recording was made if injected ~5 minutes prior, and due to Pavulon's nature as a powerfull muscle relaxant, speech would be next to impossible if injected lethaly.

    Potassium chloride is suggested to take effect within mere minutes (highest time span I've found suggested for concentrated dosages is 4-5 minutes), and the pain severe to say the least if injected withouth any form of anasthesia.

    I'm starting to smell something being covered up from us the more I look into this, because if the goal was just her death, I dont see why they went to such lenght to involve 3 different drugs who all, alone, could've killed her, unless they want to throw us off from something else. And none of them seem to fit as having been injected before Middipper's recording

    That the combination picked up in the tox screen is also THE most frequently used combination for lethal injections also seems fishy to me
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2016
  13. Leukocyte

    Leukocyte Active Agent

    Laz, pentobarbital hasnt been used for executions in a fairly long time, due to unreliability and undesirable side effects as far as i know. But other that that, you're close enough to correct for the difference to not be important.

    Which is why we're lost on the situation and trying to figure out whats really going on. Theories abound, but nothing concrete yet.
     
  14. themadhuman

    themadhuman Division-79

    Did the tox screen test for presence of drugs or drugs and their metabolites. i.e. Were the drugs broken down by her system at all. Also what were the levels of the drugs in her system such as ng/mL.
     
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  15. Leukocyte

    Leukocyte Active Agent

    They didnt share the actual report, just the stuff they found, so that remains unknown. What i posted above is basically what we got.
     

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