Is Bats A Sexist Character?

I think it's hard to tell until we actually get any story. At the moment all we have is 'here are some characters'. As long as you avoid typical pitfalls for female characters (or any media at all really) then I'd so no, or at least we can't say for sure right now at least.

 

Post complete! Sorry about the early post!

Aight, I wanted to get a comment on this. I do identify as a feminist who happens to be male-bodied for reference.

It's very easy to jump the gun and consider Bats to be sexist for the 'uncontrollable' and 'emotional' aspect of her character, but I highly disagree with that commenters analysis. I will explain why, but first I want to address tokenism:

Token characters are characters added for no other purpose than to appease a group or give the impression of diversity. Since Bats is the only female character in this group of male characters, it can appear that she is the token female. I might disagree, for the reason that these characters are based off those of us who are working for TBW, and therefore the character set is limited to those of us who are active, participating, and in this case, submitted an application to join the group. Because the characters are the players which inherently gives purpose and meaning to the characterization, I put forward the idea that there cannot be tokenism unless A&S actively engages in it, either by selecting one female only out of the population for the purpose of filling a role, or by making the female character they choose alone in a world of male characters.

The latter might be the case, as Bats is alone at that table of men. However, as we have only seen 4 pages, that could very easily change!

For her characterization, this might just be a disagreement with the poster of the comment, but she is a person with a psychiatric disorder, type-I personality disorder. Having positive representations of people with mental illness is really important, considering what people think of mental illness is the Hollywood versions (think BBC's Sherlock, every time you've seen schizophrenia on TV.) This is a feminist/social justice issue. How A&S handles this representation is important. They need to do their research on personality disorders and make that faithful in Bats' character, but not a negative portrayal in our response to her. This is also yet to be seen.

My last comment is about the adjectives the commented uses, 'deceiving' and 'uncontrollable.' Pulling these phrases out of context does not help their argument. She is not traitorous or deceptive, her façade, as Santiak said, is deceiving. The public face we all put on can be quite different from how we actually are. And uncontrollable's full phrase is 'an uncontrollable, overanalyzing mindset,' which is very far from saying that she is out of control.

 

What does Bats think?

 

I'd have to say no, Bats isn't a sexist character, in my opinion. I have trouble following the issues the person in question presents, because they seem to be based on a misreading of the characters Bio:

It's not the character that's deceiving, it's her facade. Which, in my ears, means she is someone exceptionally strong, despite being someone that might be underestimated by her adversaries. It's a trait I've always loved in characters, and nothing quite gets my hairs to stand on end, as when such characters finally show their true, powerful selves.

Just like the above point, it is not her who is uncontrollable, it's her mindset. As such, "uncontrollable" doesn't mean "woo wacky bouncy Looney Toons", but in the sense that, what other Agents might need to make a conscious effort to achieve, she does naturally.

Add to all this, that she is "rising rapidly through the ranks of TBW", and I really have trouble seeing her as a weak, chaotic element. Instead I see her as an incredibly effective one.

Finally, as to whether or not she's a token character, I must admit I don't see it.
Yes, she's the only female character in the comic, but she obviously plays a quite pivotal role in The Black Watchmen. I often consider "token" being misunderstood as a substitute word for "replaceable", and I don't feel that is any more the case with Bats character, in terms of gender, than it is with Vismal, Santiak, TCO, and so on.
As Nikel highlights, it's characters based on players, and as such, favoritism - in terms of gender - isn't really a feasibly explanation.

(edited for a metric-frack-ton of bad syntax, grammar and spelling.)

 

Chiming in with agreement that I don't find them to be sexist, personally. Admittedly, I've only got one x chromosome so I don't really have a horse in the race, but I don't see the issue. It's a short character blurb, and actions speak louder than blurbs.

 

Yeah I think we need a bit more info before we can really judge, but I think there is nothing wrong with Bats. In fact I think she looks quite awesome. I am looking forward to seeing more female Black Watchmen though.

 

Bats doesn't seem to have an issue with the character (that we are aware of) and in a previous ARG we worked closely with a female Black Watchman agent so it's not like women don't exist in the universe.

I'd be more concerned if A&S had actively "created" a female character because they felt they "had" to as opposed to acting on genuine concerns raised by the community.

Actually until the comic I wasn't aware that Bats was a female character. Not that it really matters.

 

Yes, that.
I didn't identify any agent with genders. I didn't know if Bats was male or female, and it didn't make a difference to me. Bats was/is/will be an agent contributing to the agency and will help the community in solving the missions, and that's all that matters to me really. When dealing with extra-dimensional/reality-bending entities gender (and race) have very little bearing on the outcome to be honest.

And lol Asariel Great use of a great gif

 

Right, because nice, polite, easily controlled female characters are so much less sexist?

(also, that makes 'deceiving' sound like such a bad thing)

Hrmph. I resent being written off as a "side-story character".... and don't call me "wacky!"

Short version: Ignore her. There's always going to be someone making a misguided stink over something stupid.

The core of her argument - as much as there is one - is based entirely around pulling two words out of context. Admittedly, both are rather loaded terms with negative connotations, but neither is actually referring to the character herself. "Deceiving" is, frankly, a poor and inaccurate choice of word - it does have connotations of a deliberate intent to delude (and makes for an awkward adjective, in any case) - but it's pretty clearly in reference to misleading surface impressions of Bats' personality. Similarly, 'uncontrollable' is in reference to her (her? my? both.) thought processes, and has nothing at all to do with the degree of difficulty with which the character might be controlled (in all seriousness, how exactly would a controllable female character be less sexist?). So we've got a character with an unrestrained and highly analytical mind who's often underestimated (and is seated next to the head honcho) - that's pretty much the definition of a weak female role, right?

Or is the problem that I opened the door with a smile? I've gotta work on that 'smiling' thing. It always gets me in trouble.

Aside from a couple key points (most importantly: I haven't worn my hair like that since the 90s, I need a hat, and is that really wool/fur trim on my boots and vest collar?), the character description Anashel came up with for me is rather surprisingly close to reality[1]. If I wanted to take this attack personally - or if I were inclined to read unstated prejudices into other people on flimsy evidence - I'd claim that it's her bias against mental illness at play, and that she regards the fact that I'm bi-polar as somehow being an indicator of weakness.

I'm going to have to try to follow this up (maybe with a slightly more politic response) on the actual KS thread later, but I think the problem here lies with the commenter, not the character. There's a certain personality type that seems to pick up a pet cause and then go running around reading offenses against said cause into everything they see... like deciding a character is both a negative sexist stereotype and insignificant based on one page of a comic preview and a bio that says nothing of the sort. While there is a pronounced lack of strong female roles in gaming, fighting it as a pet cause has become a little too trendy - I feel like I'm seeing more and more instances like this, where any female in less than the lead role is attacked, regardless of the character's merits.


-Bats
[1] The description, not necessarily the model(s) for it... I happen to be a much snappier dresser than Mrs. Watson.

 

Oh, I definitely have issues with the character. I want a cowboy hat. And someone needs to teach me to tie my boots properly - I look like I couldn't even be bothered to lace them all the way up.

And said female agent is even not-killed now - so there are at least two of us.

Agreed. Because that is where token characters come from.

Don't worry, I have days like that myself.


-Bats

 

You rock Bats

 

Based on their comment, I suspect that this is someone who didn't read - or at least really didn't understand - the fact that the comic is being based around players/characters, which creates certain constraints that don't exist when the story is being woven from nothing.

Contributing to that issue, during this interregnum between games/campaigns there really haven't been a whole lot of active players to choose from - female or otherwise... and some of them might not be quite so gender-flexible when they find out they don't quite match up with their comic character, or that their character in the comic doesn't match what they'd intended to RP.

I expect things to become a lot more balanced as the community continues to ramp up, with a lot more player/character options on both sides of the fence... but, like Ciaran said, don't try shoehorning characters in just to fill some sort of artificial quota (or, like Ciaran didn't say, to appease a lonely misguided loudmouth).

-Bats

 

Wow. Firstly, I admire the open attitude from Anashel regarding my feedback, and also the discussion of the topic, which has been thorough and satisfactory. However, some of the comments further down the page make me regret ever sticking my neck out. I provided feedback based on the impression I got reading the Kickstarter update, phrased in a forward way to emphasize my point. It was not intended to be taken personally by the person inspiring the character. In fact, I was not aware that the character was based on a person in such a direct sense.

Much like the TBW crew, I have English as a 2nd language and I'm aware I may phrase things oddly at times, although I take care to make as much sense as I can.

Before saying "don't comment if you don't know what you're talking about", consider that everyone else does not have all the information that you do. Things that seem clear as day for those who have read the forum from the beginning, may not be as clear based on the info provided in KS.

Some unnecessarily hostile comments made me very doubtful about whether to dare/bother posting in this thread or stay silent forever. I may very well be lonely, and misguided at times, but no one calls me a loudmouth.

 

First and foremost, thanks for joining us, Akita.
Let me follow that by immediately saying that, despite not being able to speak on the behalf of others, I am fairly certain that any hostility is not aimed at you, as much as it is aimed towards the issue itself.

As you mention, those who are just joining us aren't in the know of things, so let me briefly bring you up to speed:
The picture of Patient Alpha was another controversy of the same nature, which flared up during the previous fundraiser on MMORPG.com.
It was ultimately agreed upon, after heavy debate, that Patient Alpha was not an issue, by virtue of her strength as a female character.
However, as a result, I suspect people became rather vexed by any mention to of that issue, as it was brought up sporadically after that.

This is, of course, not to say your feedback is not appreciated, quite the contrary. It is merely an attempt to explain why some reactions may have been overly strong, and that these reactions - as mentioned - was not meant to reflect upon you, but upon a similar issue to before, arising once more.

I do hope you stick around, as we are a very welcoming bunch, and that I, at least personally, like any kind of feedback, as it will ultimately help remove as many issues as possible.


Now, having read the more in-depth analysis of Bats (the comic-book character, we've given up on analysing the actual one), what is your take on it now?

 

Firstly, welcome and thank you for taking the time to post here.

As you may have noticed we are a very passionate bunch here in the forums. I do agree that more could be done to help make sure that info on Kickstarter is equal to that on the forums especially when it comes to updates. Part of that can be us as forum users helping to pass along the information and part of that is to make sure the information is concise to start with.

Bats is obviously very passionate about the character that has been created and it's understandable that it would feel like an attack even if it wasn't intended way when the character is brought into question. But please don't let that colour you're view of Bats or the project. It is truly a great community and brilliant project.

 

Thank you so much for the clarification, Santiak. Being late to the table usually includes a steep learning curve, not least in the case of a novel concept such as this game. I can imagine the "underboob" picture sparking discussion, and it sounds like it was a lengthy one so it's understandable if the debaters are tired of the topic.

As for your question (I am too misguided to find the quote function so I'll just copy): Now, having read the more in-depth analysis of Bats (the comic-book character, we've given up on analysing the actual one), what is your take on it now?
With the full description, she seems like a many-faceted, full-bodied character that I would very much like to get to know better. What better start of a narrative could you ask for?
As for the mental illness part, I've always found the characters who think a bit differently to be the most interesting ones. Twisted minds are the most intriguing ones. And I am saying twisted in the most positive way imaginable. So any "mental illness bias" on my part must be the other way round - if anything I may be guilty of equating normal=boring.